Black president? Mexico has been there, done that ... in 1829
By ROSE YBARRA, The Enterprise
02/23/2008
Updated 02/23/2008 12:13:54 AM CST
If Barack Obama wins the presidential election, he will be the first black president in U.S. history - but he wouldn't be the first black president in North America.
That honor belongs to Vicente Ramon Guerrero, the second president of Mexico and one of the most fascinating figures in Mexican history.
Guerrero, who was of white, black and Indian descent, took office in 1829.
"Many people are unaware than Mexico had a black president," said Ray Von Robertson, a sociology professor at Lamar University in Beaumont.
"It's not the kind of information you'll find in a textbook, but it should be. It is information that black people need to know. He is a very significant part of African and African-American history."
African-American historian J.A. Rogers and author of the 1947 book, "World's Great Men of Color," described Guerrero as the George Washington and Abraham Lincoln of Mexico because he played a pivotal role in Mexico's independence from Spain.
He fought on the front lines and recruited new soldiers, mostly Indians, to the cause. He was elevated to the rank of captain just one year after joining the fight.
More than a century before hanging chads dominated the headlines in the 2000 presidential election in the United States, the Mexican congress declared Guerrero the winner after the outcome of the election was challenged.
During his eight-month tenure as president, Guerrero abolished slavery in Mexico - more than 30 years before slavery was abolished in the United States.
Guerrero, who was born into a peasant family, also disabled Mexico's long-standing caste system, said Carlos Muñoz, Jr., professor emeritus in the Department of Ethnic Studies at the University of California at Berkeley.
"Mexico suffered a profound, tremendous caste system during its colonial period, but Guerrero somehow was successful in tearing it down," Muñoz said.
He also declared that all inhabitants, whether white, African or Indian, were qualified to hold office under the Mexican constitution.
Though Guerrero was wildly popular with the masses, the middle and lower classes, the rich were less fond of him.
He was ousted from office Dec. 16, 1829, in a revolt orchestrated by his vice president, Anastasio Bustamante.
Guerrero initiated a counter-revolution after leaving office but was unsuccessful in reclaiming the presidency.
Francisco Pucaluga, a close friend, was paid to betray Guerrero by luring him to a dinner party.
When Guerrero arrived for the soirée, he was abducted, held prisoner and ultimately killed.
When word spread of his death, there was nationwide revolt and Pucaluga was killed in retaliation.
A Mexican state on the Pacific coast is named in honor of Guerrero. It is home to several resort towns, including Acapulco.
Muñoz said it took Mexican historians and anthropologists more than 100 years to acknowledge Guerrero's African roots and even longer for that information to trickle into classrooms and books.
"Before then, the myth that all Mexicans are mestizos - or a mix of indigenous and Spanish - was being perpetuated," Munoz said. "It's finally coming to light that Mexicans also have African roots, Middle Eastern roots and even Asian roots."
Robertson said he's been talking about Guerrero in his classes for years and his students usually are skeptical when he mentions that Guerrero was black.
"Sometimes, they don't believe me," Robertson said. "I've had to print out information from the Internet so they can see it."
Robertson also tells his students about system similar to the Underground Railroad that American slaves in the South utilized as a means to escape to Mexico.
"Not all slaves fled north," he said. "Many of them also headed south to Mexico. There were a lot of black settlements in northern Mexico."
Muñoz said in recent years, African and African-American studies scholars from the United States have reached out to historians in Mexico.
"They have found a common history and they are forging relationships," he said.
A reminder that the assignation 'black' has varying degrees of association and understanding meaning the USA definition of black will be at odds with the Mexican representation of it. Guerrero was tri racial (trigueno) so in that sense he was not black in the USAmerican sense if it.
1. He does fit black description in the ODR sense but again that ODR does not apply to Latin America.
2. Black (negro) is many cases referes to 'pura sangre' (SSA) and in both Latin America and the US since said phenoptype would be both ID'eed as such for all parties.
3. Based on Mexico's indigena base, Guerrero would appear to fit the 'indio' stereotype since it is only Guerrero's closest compatriots who would know his African ancestry.
4. Google his name and you will see the various descriptions assigned to him and his ethnicity. Of course, the controversy continues.
The article would have been challenged by a moderator had it been written by a member. The article nimbly switches back and forth (wsometimes even within the same sentence) between "Black" meaning "African-American" and "Black" meaning "of known sub-Saharan ancestry." Guerrero was definitely not the former. And countless U.S. politicians (including Alexander Hamilton) have been the latter. Bill Clinton clamied regularly to be the first "Black" president in the latter sense.
A reminder that the assignation 'black' has varying degrees of association and understanding meaning the USA definition of black will be at odds with the Mexican representation of it. Guerrero was tri racial (trigueno) so in that sense he was not black in the USAmerican sense if it.
1. He does fit black description in the ODR sense but again that ODR does not apply to Latin America.
2. Black (negro) is many cases referes to 'pura sangre' (SSA) and in both Latin America and the US since said phenoptype would be both ID'eed as such for all parties.
3. Based on Mexico's indigena base, Guerrero would appear to fit the 'indio' stereotype since it is only Guerrero's closest compatriots who would know his African ancestry.
4. Google his name and you will see the various descriptions assigned to him and his ethnicity. Of course, the controversy continues.
well, according to the US, if you have one stint of black, you are black. So in that sense, he is black, considering he has African genes. I'm not familiar with the term pura sangre. Either way the guy has African genes, so poo to all the people who want to reject that because they hate African-descended people.
The article would have been challenged by a moderator had it been written by a member. The article nimbly switches back and forth (wsometimes even within the same sentence) between "Black" meaning "African-American" and "Black" meaning "of known sub-Saharan ancestry." Guerrero was definitely not the former. And countless U.S. politicians (including Alexander Hamilton) have been the latter. Bill Clinton clamied regularly to be the first "Black" president in the latter sense.
that's interesting , considering he doesn't look like he has sub-saharan African features.
that's interesting , considering he doesn't look like he has sub-saharan African features.
Do you mean Hamilton or Clinton? Hamilton I am sure of. He was from Barbados, after all. Clinton, I dunno. But, as Randall Kennedy said, "if he wants to be A-A, then I say, 'welcome aboard!'." Either way, we have posted many photos here of people who have known significant SSA ancestry, including myself, who don't look it to the average American.
Posted: Sun 24 Feb 2008 02:59 Post subject: "Black" Mexicans
fwsweet wrote:
The article would have been challenged by a moderator had it been written by a member. The article nimbly switches back and forth (wsometimes even within the same sentence) between "Black" meaning "African-American" and "Black" meaning "of known sub-Saharan ancestry." Guerrero was definitely not the former. And countless U.S. politicians (including Alexander Hamilton) have been the latter. Bill Clinton clamied regularly to be the first "Black" president in the latter sense.
It is contradictory for Robertson to apply the ODR to Guerrero in order to tell his students that Mexicans have African ancestry, Notice that he can't even say "part-black" instead of just "black." Don't you think Mexicans are reluctant to mention their African ancestry precisely because they are aware of the ODR in the United States? By contrast, everyone and his brother wants to be part-Indian because "Indian blood" alone doesn't make you an Indian.
If we use the one drop rule to define Blackness than Venezuela at the moment currently has a Black president. I am surprised the article didn't mention Hugo Chavez. Even Wikipedia has him listed as an Afro Venezuelan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Afro-Venezuelans
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 360 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Sun 24 Feb 2008 12:41 Post subject:
Quote:
If we use the one drop rule to define Blackness than Venezuela at the moment currently has a Black president. I am surprised the article didn't mention Hugo Chavez. Even Wikipedia has him listed as an Afro Venezuelan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Afro-Venezuelans
I don't disagree with anything you wrote but I want to point out that wikipedia is not an authoritative source, considering anyone with a computer and an internet connection can write anything they want there. It can be a good place to find other sources, but never take anything on there at face value.
If we use the one drop rule to define Blackness than Venezuela at the moment currently has a Black president. I am surprised the article didn't mention Hugo Chavez. Even Wikipedia has him listed as an Afro Venezuelan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Afro-Venezuelans
But Chavez himself has publically acknowledged the fact that he has black roots but I don't ever recall him saying that he was black or Afro.
Oh and Alexander Hamilton was not from Barbados he was from Nevis.
Alexander Hamilton was not from Barbados he was from Nevis.
Right. He and his parents moved to Christiansted, St. Croix, when he was ten years old. I sometimes get those small Anglophone West Indian islands confused.
fsweet, do most Black people that you know consider Alexander Hamilton to be their racial kin ?
No. Most people I know (Black or White) are not particularly interested in the "racial" history of the United States.
Some have studied the odd bits of African ancestry among famous people in history (Alessandro Di Medici, Pushkin, Dumas pere, Audubon, Hamilton, etc.). J.A. Rogers, Sex and Race, 3 vols. (St. Petersburg, Fla.: Helga M. Rogers, 1944), for example. is entertaining, but includes cases with only the flimsiest of evidence. Others, such as the fluff-pieces that come out every February include even obscure but worthy Americans as long as they had even the slightest trace of of African ancestry, to claim them for "Black History Month."
Probably the most thorough collection of such stories is Henry Louis Gates, Jr., and Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham, eds., African American National Biography (Oxford: Oxford University, 2008). It lists some 4,000 famous (and semi-famous) Americans with any known African ancestry. It comprises 8 volumes, 5,568 pages, and sells for $795. FOr those who are so fascinated with the topic that they can justify spending the $800, I suppose it is worth it. Personally, I find such ethnic-hero fables a little sad, since they include many people who, in life, were known to self-identify as White and to be fully accepted as White in society.
Posted: Sun 24 Feb 2008 23:24 Post subject: Racial insecurity
fwsweet wrote:
Bischoff wrote:
fsweet, do most Black people that you know consider Alexander Hamilton to be their racial kin ?
No. Most people I know (Black or White) are not particularly interested in the "racial" history of the United States.
Some have studied the odd bits of African ancestry among famous people in history (Alessandro Di Medici, Pushkin, Dumas pere, Audubon, Hamilton, etc.). J.A. Rogers, Sex and Race, 3 vols. (St. Petersburg, Fla.: Helga M. Rogers, 1944), for example. is entertaining, but includes cases with only the flimsiest of evidence. Others, such as the fluff-pieces that come out every February include even obscure but worthy Americans as long as they had even the slightest trace of of African ancestry, to claim them for "Black History Month."
Probably the most thorough collection of such stories is Henry Louis Gates, Jr., and Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham, eds., African American National Biography (Oxford: Oxford University, 2008). It lists some 4,000 famous (and semi-famous) Americans with any known African ancestry. It comprises 8 volumes, 5,568 pages, and sells for $795. FOr those who are so fascinated with the topic that they can justify spending the $800, I suppose it is worth it. Personally, I find such ethnic-hero fables a little sad, since they include many people who, in life, were known to self-identify as White and to be fully accepted as White in society.
I have long suspected that Gates and other AAs of his thinking are motivated by a racial inferiority complex, meaning that they fear that SSA genes are probably inferior to Euro ones. If you believe that, it makes sense to support the ODR in order to build a huge "black" racial resume, so to speak. The ODR works for them because, as long as they "keep their place" in regard to powerful mixed-race groups such as Hispanics and Arabs, few whites will publicly question AA elites and their racial definitions. Indeed, AAs like Gates are given prime access to the media in order to spread their ODR gospel. Anyone who wants to contest the "black" definition is excluded from the debate. The really sad thing is that Gates and his enablers send these destructive messages:
(1) There is something inferior about SSA ancestry since no other ancestry has an ODR and, since even blacks themselves support the ODR, they know this is true.
(2) The overrepresentation of mulattoes, mixed whites, etc. in the "black resume" means that the intelligence of these people comes from their white ancestry. Euro genes do the work and SSA genes get the credit, you might say.
(3) Racial equality becomes, thanks to the AA embrace of the ODR, just a party line that "everyone" must parrot but "everyone" knows is not true.
that's interesting , considering he doesn't look like he has sub-saharan African features.
Do you mean Hamilton or Clinton? Hamilton I am sure of. He was from Barbados, after all. Clinton, I dunno. But, as Randall Kennedy said, "if he wants to be A-A, then I say, 'welcome aboard!'." Either way, we have posted many photos here of people who have known significant SSA ancestry, including myself, who don't look it to the average American.
So this isn't the African ancenstry that everyone in the world has, due to the fact that Kenya is apparently the origin of man.
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1053 } Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon 25 Feb 2008 16:16 Post subject:
This is a bit off-topic, but Gates seems to have redeemed himself a bit in the second segment of Part 2 of African-American Lives, which I just saw last night. He seems to not object to Broyard's not accepting a Black designation, and even embraces his own Irish ancestry. Maybe he's learning, too. I suppose you can't fault someone for being ignorant initially, but you can only fault them for remaining ignorant.
Posted: Mon 25 Feb 2008 23:12 Post subject: Gates is unrepentant
William wrote:
This is a bit off-topic, but Gates seems to have redeemed himself a bit in the second segment of Part 2 of African-American Lives, which I just saw last night. He seems to not object to Broyard's not accepting a Black designation, and even embraces his own Irish ancestry. Maybe he's learning, too. I suppose you can't fault someone for being ignorant initially, but you can only fault them for remaining ignorant.
William, I think you have mistaken damage control for repentance.
Anatole is dead and Bliss is alive. That is usually the great difference between labeling someone "black" or not. Gates knows that the ODR cannot be defended in any logical manner. He is not going to get into a "You're black whether you like it or not" debate with a live person. He will have "redeemed" himself when he renounces the racial kidnapping that he has used to claim Anatole Broyard and so many more.
For another example of this tendency to "blacken" the dead in the name of the ODR but not the living, read Jillian Sim's denunciation of her "passing" paternal grandmother and great-grandparents in "Fading to White." Note that Sim does not call herself, her father or her son "black."
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